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MUSCLECARMAGMAN
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2004, 09:56:25 am »

Dan you'll see that the #4 car has a body #96366 and the #50 car has #96923.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2004, 10:16:22 am »

Tim, Where did you get this info just RECENTLY,... Cheesy Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2004, 10:46:51 am »

Dan I was always told that they were consecutive but I had a couple that didn't cooralate.From my understanding they were built in 3 different batches.The individual that shares some info with me prefers to remain anonymous.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2004, 11:10:54 am »

Tim,So your saying 3 batches,without seeing the actually paperwork I won't believe the numbers are NOT in sequence. Theres people in the know that mislead for their own financial gains.Tim this is not meant towards you in ANYWAY.The truth will always come out in the END. Cheesy Cheesy Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2004, 04:19:22 pm »

I don't know if they send all 50 down the line at one time? Don't they have different assembly dates on the cowl tag? The 68 Yenko Camaros were biult in small groups and spread out over the year Huh
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2004, 04:32:23 pm »

Tom, 07A and 07B were the build dates,but all cars ordered by Fred Gibb at the same time to meet the NHRA requirements.The vin numbers are not in sequence,because of the 07A and 07B build dates. Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2004, 08:03:08 pm »

Would the color differences cause the cars to come through in different batches?  That might make some sense.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2004, 07:33:04 am »

Jeff,Yes I could see the cars come down the assembly line at a different time because of the 4 different 68 Copo Nova Colors,which means the vin numbers were Not in Sequence.Like I said Fred Gibb batch ordered 50 of these cars so the customers order numbers(body Numbers) should all be in Sequence. Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2004, 01:58:45 pm »

Dan,

The 50 Gibb COPO Novas being discussed here, were not built in any consecutive order, though they were all ordered in one lot. I will not reveal any of the numbers I have documentated, because I do not have permission from any owners, but I will add this information about these cars. Car # 3 is documented and alive as is the # 50 car. For example, there is a difference of 3,935 in the VIN numbers, and a difference of 559 in the Fisher Body tags. What is also interesting, is the fact that between the #36 car and # 40 car is a difference of 110, these being all 07B cars, Fathom Blue. I would only have to speculate as to why this may be, but I do have this much documented.

While reading some of the posts about fun times with these old battle irons, I would like to add, would some reading this think about an experimental automatic being effective vs. 4 speeds? Remember, before these cars were built, all high revving, high horsepower Chevrolet's were stick cars. This is the benchmark of the COPO Nova. This is why Fred Gibb had these cars built for his dealership.

Dan, the car you speak of in Texas in a former post, was that the one of MH's?

Ray
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2004, 02:57:55 pm »

With gears and a good set of slicks they could run with the four speeds! I seen some automatic Novas in 1969 run even with and beat four speeds. I think alot had to do with the way the trannies were set up, with stall speeds etc. Wink Grin
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2004, 03:01:40 pm »

Interesting insite thanks for posting Ray.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2004, 03:27:56 pm »

Ray,Glad to see ya here,Yes  thats the Mark Horton Car from Arizona...07B TR 735 BLk Bucket Seats HH PNT Grecian Green and body number 984XX .....Dan Cheesy
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2004, 07:04:33 pm »

Ray,Thru my many phone cars,some of them old dragracers,I got the name of a original owner of a 68 COPO Nova that drag raced.Guy probably doesn't have it still,but it is a start.I got his phone number and will call,just got too many cars that I'm working on finding, Cheesy Like another possible COPO 68, Cheesy Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2004, 08:07:17 pm »

Dan,

Was talking with Howie this afternoon. We're still looking for more of the Gibb Novas without most of the the VIN numbers. A good many of these cars were drag raced and there is a good possibility several are still on the track? Though they may have been hammered hard, these cars may have come nearer surviving than those on the road? Any 68 SS Nova that came with a 07A or 07B build date with a BB, would be of interest. Not all 396 cars with automatics were L-78 cars as there were a few 350 horse cars ( about 48 I believe ) with the Turbo-400?

COPO 9737; What I meant to say about the automatic and the fun part, was not necessarily how fast it was, but the attitude that most held toward an automatic during this time period. I still smile when thinking about the many who questioned why anyone would want an automatic car with a high performance motor? Since these cars were just introduced, there were no high stall converters built for the Turbo 400, at least as far as I knew? I believe the stall speed on the first of these heavy duty automatics was around 1800 rpm? I know they were tight enough that it was hard to keep them from creeping at a stop light, as the cam loped. The later version used in the L-78's & 69 COPO's, had a little higher stock stall speed, which was in the neighborhood of 2200 rpm?

There was a big advantage at the strip, though. Since these cars were just introduced, the records were pretty soft, creating a pretty good handicap over the stick cars of the same class. The American Hot Rod Association classified cars by weight to cubic inches, Automatic or Stick, and Carb. choice,as did the International Hot Rod Assoc., later on. What many didn't realize about these redesigned automatic transmissions, until it was outlawed, is how these cars would jump with 6,000 rpm nuetral starts. By the time this was outlawed, the different stall speed converters were beginning to appear. As far as know, neutral drops were never outlawed on the streets?

Ray
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #64 on: April 05, 2004, 08:30:03 pm »

Ray,Just to make it even harder to find one of these 68 COPO 396 or DH 427 Novas,I was talking to a Dragracer about Novas and how some of these guys changed the dash,vin number,cowel tag to 69 Novas.The reason was because of the L89 option in 69.Yes they did make the L89 in 69 for Novas,this guy ordered a Black on Black L78 1969 4spd M22 Nova from Shallcross Chevrolet in DE. and could of ordered the L89 option but because he heard they had problems with the head lifting,he didn't get the L89 option.Tom Shallcross was very well known on the eastcoast circuit,ran a 69 Nova himself.Anyway this person knows of a original 1 owner  69 Nova L78 4spd with the L89 option,still in its original condiion and for those wanting to buy it,NO ITS NOT FOR SALE,I asked. Cheesy Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2004, 09:34:36 pm »

Dan, try to find out the code on the front pad. See if it's coded like a L89 camaro, or like a L78 nova. I have a theory about this. I tend to believe L89 novas were coded as L78s. I may be wrong' but that might explain why none have been found, as we're looking for a camaro code that was'nt used on novas.
Hi Ray, good to hear from you. Schonye
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #66 on: April 05, 2004, 10:07:57 pm »

Schonye,I have him checking on some treasure I've been researching and probably won't be talking to him for at least a week,but I definitly will ask him,I don't see a problem.. Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2004, 12:48:31 pm »

Hey Guys,Ed Cunneen update his info on the 1968 Copo Novas,the recent ebay 1968 #4 Copo 427 DH car is listed as PRIVATE,hmmm anyone want to take a guess who that is.. Roll Eyes Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #68 on: April 06, 2004, 01:20:11 pm »

Ed doesn't have the Harry Kalwei car as detroyed.I think Clint said its sitting at the bottom of a well.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #69 on: April 06, 2004, 04:47:58 pm »

I know I would not want to neurtral start ANY car at 6K rpms Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Wink
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #70 on: April 06, 2004, 07:37:27 pm »

Have NEVER in my life seen a aluminum head big block nova. Does not mean much, Huh but never saw one. EVER! Better get Marlin Spotts involved in this.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #71 on: April 06, 2004, 07:49:22 pm »

I know Marlin,he has never seen one either.Clint Richmond,a member of this site knows of one,owned by a known drag racer back then.I believe that one was bought from Wallace Chevrolet,Linden NJ where the Huckleberry Hound ran out of....Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #72 on: April 06, 2004, 07:57:23 pm »

In those days anything went . You could have the dealers do anything you wanted. Warranty upgrades whatever. NOBODY really kept paper work in those days. It really didn't matter. Only the real lucky still have the papers. When I bought my 1969 SS nova new, my cousin worked at Mullin Motors in Ambler, Pa.  He said hey Sam do you want a set of headers or Lakewood bars installed? Your dad will think they came with the car. There was NO paper work involved back then.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #73 on: April 06, 2004, 08:07:56 pm »

Sam,Its funny you bring that up,I have in my possesion a copy of a original Dealership Invoice and on it it shows the addition of a Sun Tach at the cost of $55.00.This I got from the original owner of the car.There has to be paper work originally given to owner of new car for Dealer add ons,only makes sense. Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #74 on: April 06, 2004, 09:16:41 pm »

Tim,
You are correct on the Harry Kalwei car. That story came straight from Harry himself. Another Nova was built to look like it shortly after the car was totaled.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #75 on: April 07, 2004, 05:16:09 am »

COPO 9737,

Probably would never have tried this if it hadn't been for Harrell demonstrating the technique on the test ride. He made the comment about this automatic as being extremely strong and not to be afraid of tearing it up. Actually, the result was a pretty smooth launch, nothing as harsh as side stepping the clutch on a 4 speed, however it would sling you out the chute. The transmission was preloaded as it was first brought downward through 3rd, 2nd, and finally into low. This transmission was definitely a tough one as it is still alive, today.

Ray
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #76 on: April 07, 2004, 02:01:34 pm »

I am sure there was paper work, like you said there had to be....in most cases. How many people were anal enough to keep it? Shocked
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #77 on: April 07, 2004, 03:54:12 pm »

That does sound smoother than dumping the clutch! I started using a line lock in 1969 and that sure took alot of strain off the drive line Wink
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #78 on: April 07, 2004, 03:59:04 pm »

Sam,I know where I talked to some people that had kept their Cherish pictures and paperwork,then comes the Divorce and it mysteriously is missing... Cheesy Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2004, 10:19:24 am »

Well guys just found out the original owner  bought this car in Topeka Kansas and now lives in Colorado.This car originally a 68 COPO 396 Nova that was Super Tuned by Dick Harrell and had a Stinger Hood.This never got the 427 motor from Dick Harrell.Later on down the road the original owner put a 427 in it and put the 427 badges on the front fenders,not the "Red Foil 427" badges that Dick Harrell used.He also later on put the 427 Cross Flags on the front fenders sides behind the front tires.So I hope this dosen't get restored as a 427 car now! If you want to see old vintage pictures of this car from the original owner go to the Dick Harrell site, they were just posted late last nite.....Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #80 on: April 15, 2004, 10:38:18 am »

I'm stumped. Huh
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2004, 11:11:42 am »

Tim,Ask away,I know it's confusing,but what do you need answered...We know it was a COPO and DH car from the beginning and Vuaghn told me it was a 427 car after I told him to pursue the previous owner,which he did and thats when he found out it was at one time in Ca with a 427 then went to Eugene Oregon with the 427.Then the plumber who sold it to the used car lot pulled the 427.Vaughn bought it from the used car lot...Now the original owner states it was a 68 COPO Nova with the Super Tune and stinger hood.Correct me if I'm wrong wasn't there a short warrantee on the engines when DH did his mods? The original owner states that the 427 was put in later on after he wasted the original motor....Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #82 on: April 15, 2004, 11:23:08 am »

Well guys just found out the original owner  bought this car in Topeka Kansas and now lives in Colorado.This car originally a 68 COPO 396 Nova that was Super Tuned by Dick Harrell and had a Stinger Hood.This never got the 427 motor from Dick Harrell.Later on down the road the original owner put a 427 in it and put the 427 badges on the front fenders,not the Red Foil 427 badges that Dick Harrell used.He also later on put the 427 Cross Flags on the front fenders sides behind the front tires.So I hope this dosen't get restored as a 427 car now! If you want to see old vintage pictures of this car from the original owner go to the Dick Harrell site, they were just posted late last nite.....Dan

Huh Dan, Is this the same original owner that ed says he also contacted? Ed has posted a reply onthe Harrell page. Check it out for a good laugh.
Bill
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #83 on: April 15, 2004, 12:10:44 pm »

Bill,Thanks I'll check it out.For those interested in examples of the RED Foil tape that Dick Harrell used on the 68 427 cars,check Ray Morrison's 68 Copo Dick Harrell 427 Nova,Jude Hetticks 68 Copo 427 Dick Harrell Nova and Joe S 68 427 Dick Harrell Chevelle red with black vinyl top....Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #84 on: April 15, 2004, 12:46:39 pm »

So it's an original COPO 396 car that had the original motor blown up and replaced with a 427?  And the original owner put the 427 in as well as the "427" emblems on the car?  This car sounds quite similar to another so called 427 Nova.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #85 on: April 15, 2004, 01:33:28 pm »

Jeff,Which one,the California 70 L78 396 Black Nova Super Tuned by Motion that went to a Full Blown Phase III 454 all of a sudden.Or is it the 69 L78 396 Black Nova sold from Yenko Chevrolet,2 years later a Yenko mechanic puts a 427 in it in his Garage and now its a Yenko 427 Nova,without Don Yenko being ever involved in the 427 transplant,I'm confused Jeff ,which does it sound like, Grin I guess because of the rarity of these 68, 69 and 70 427 Novas things like this are gonna happen,oh boy what a mess....Dan  
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #86 on: April 15, 2004, 01:48:56 pm »

The 396 shortblock was replaced under the 90 day factory warranty period when the car had less than 500 miles on it. The main bearings melted due to a flaw in the water pump, restricting flow. It received an L-88 shortblock.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #87 on: April 15, 2004, 02:56:55 pm »

 Shocked
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #88 on: April 15, 2004, 03:27:38 pm »

Ed,I'm not gonna disclosed how I got my info,but I will tell you it's a  very reliable source and you know him. Why do your vintage pictures from the original owner show the wrong 427 badge that Dick Harrell used on the 68 427 Chevelles and Novas,the "Red 427 tape Foil badge" ?? I not trying to devalue your car,but what was told to me and the 427 badge Huh? Heck you still got a fantastic deal on a 68 COPO Nova super tuned by Dick Harrell.I heard the body is in AWESOME shape very solid!! Dan  
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #89 on: April 15, 2004, 07:51:37 pm »

Most likely the reason was that the car was sold new out of the Harrell shop in January, 1969, and the 427 shortblock, along with the 427 emblems, were installed spring of 1969. Perhaps someone may know if the red 427 emblems were discontinued by Chevrolet and replaced with the black ones by that time.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #90 on: April 15, 2004, 09:28:54 pm »

This was the number 4 car of a Total of 50 which came in July 1st and 2nd week of 1968.So your saying this 4 th car did not sell till sometime in January of 1969,Wow! Shocked
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #91 on: April 15, 2004, 09:42:46 pm »

Oh yeah Mark Fuss's 68 SS 396 Nova that wasn't originally a 68 COPO Nova but had a 427 L-88 with Aluminum heads put in his Nova by Dick Harrell sometime in early 69 because of the Jan 69 date code of his engine,had 427 tape badges not the raised chrome 427 like you have Ed.Mark were the same as the ones Baldwin Motion Novas in 69,tape 427 with small SS's right above,saw Mark's in person,not raised chrome 427. Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #92 on: April 16, 2004, 04:34:16 am »

Check out http://www.impalass427.com/68ss427exterior.htm
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #93 on: April 16, 2004, 06:22:24 am »

Ed ,Yes I knew this but I imagine Dick Harrell bought his over the counter at a local Chevy Parts Dealer or thru Fred Gibb in bulk for his 427 68 COPO Nova Transplants.Just because the Impalas used them at certain times of production dosen't mean you couldn't still buy them at a local Chevy dealer in the parts department.Remember Dick anticipated doing the 427 Conversions on these Novas and I'm sure he ordered enough to do these before he got started...Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #94 on: April 16, 2004, 07:14:42 am »

This brings up a question.  Was the intention of ordering 50 cars to make the 396/TH400 combination legal for racing or was it really originally planned to do 50 SS427 conversions?  I'm guessing it was for racing purposes just like the ZL1s.  What seems odd is that these cars showed up at the end of the production year when the racing season was more than half done.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #95 on: April 16, 2004, 07:20:43 am »

Dan , My car was never sold until 12-4-68 to Rodney Hahn. And Ray Morrison's car was sold around the same time. You have to realize these cars had a 90 day warrenty only and the new 69 cars were coming out in a month with a 400 turbo with a 5 year warrenty. Fred had a hell of a time selling these cars. This is one reason they put the 427's in them to make them easier to sell.  If I had to guess, if Fred had sold all the cars right away there wouldn't be any Gibb 427 cars. This car my have came with these markers. I don't know.     Now did the org owner tell  you this?   Kim  
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #96 on: April 16, 2004, 07:32:56 am »

Hi Kim Welcome to this site.Doesn't anyone have a list and documents to prove which 68 Copo Novas had the Dick Harrell 427 motors put in them? Dan
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #97 on: April 16, 2004, 07:59:43 am »

The 50th 396-375 optioned Nova was produced on April 23, 1968.
Delivery of Fred's 50th 9738 Nova was completed by July 15, 1968.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #98 on: April 16, 2004, 08:16:38 am »

Dan Not that I know of.
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Re:1968 Nova,Harrell?
« Reply #99 on: April 16, 2004, 09:26:43 am »

The 50th 396-375 optioned Nova was produced on April 23, 1968.
Delivery of Fred's 50th 9738 Nova was completed by July 15, 1968.
 How can # 50 have a production date of April 23rd and be built July 2nd week? Kim
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